Episode 001: What Is Renegade Grace?

What is renegade grace — and why does it matter?

In this first episode, Jess Hays introduces the heart behind the Renegade Grace Podcast and the theology that fuels it. Drawing from her own story, Scripture, and New Covenant theology, Jess unpacks the difference between law-based religion and grace-based living, exposing how performance-driven Christianity distorts the gospel and hinders real transformation.

Show Notes:

Link to Jess’s Books: CLICK HERE

Website: renegadegrace.com

Instagram: @renegadepastor

Email: jess@renegadegrace.com

Verses Referenced in Today’s Episode: Romans 8:4, Titus 2:11-12, 2 Corinthians 9:8, Luke 2:52, Genesis 3:1-7, Hebrews 10:3, Colossians 2:6, Romans 7, 1 Corinthians 15:56-57  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the very first episode of the Renegade Grace podcast. I am your Grace Obsessed host, Jess Hayes, and I am super excited for us to be on this adventure together. Thanks for joining me on this fun grace adventure. So this podcast is primarily going to be a teaching podcast where we will talk about theology and doctrine and scripture, lots of scripture and other faith things. So all the all the faith things. Any teaching that you're going to hear from me is always going to be rooted in the new covenant and taught through a lens of radical grace. So before we jump into the depths of grace theology, I thought it'd probably be a super good idea if I shared a little bit just about my own personal journey and story and kind of my journey to understanding grace and like how I ended up here obsessed with grace. I'm also going to talk a little bit about what I mean when I say radical grace or renegade grace. So we'll talk a little bit about what I mean by that. All right. So let's just jump into my path to grace. So I grew up in very strict religious spaces in a ministry family. So my dad was in ministry, my um grandfather was a pastor, uh, my uncles were pastors, uh, my grandmother's dad was a pastor, lots of pastors, lots and lots of pastors in the family. And we were pretty entrenched in religion. My parents tell a story of I was, let's see, born, I was born in April, and in June or July, I think I was at youth camp with them. They were youth youth ministers, and we were in youth camp, and I was in the, you know, stroller at youth camp. So I mean, I was born into religion. I kind of jokingly say sometimes that I grew up teething on pews, both literally and metaphorically. And with that came its challenges because um it was a very legalistic space. There was lots and lots of law and religion. Do this to get this from God. Um, this is how you stay, you make God happy, this is how you make him mad, this is good and this is bad. Everything was very black and white. The Bible was, quote, very clear about certain things, and you don't question those things. Those are the rules, and you live in the rules and you abide by the rules. And I was in a ministry family, and so there were even more rules for me because, of course, I couldn't, I had to be an example for everyone else. You know, can't let my brother stumble because, you know, of something I did. And so there was this like extra level of expectation. And that was really tough. That was really tough for me. Um, there was another element to for me personally that was really tough, which was that I didn't fit any box that religion ever tried to put me in. Literally every single box that anyone tried to put me in, I just was too big for. And that was everything from, you know, what it looks like to be a Christian to um what it looks like to be a woman, to just like what it looks like to exist in my own skin. I failed at all of those things, according to religion. Um, and that left me feeling pretty disheartened and disgusting, really. Like I felt pretty disgusting and broken just because I existed. And the church like reinforced this continually because it gave me lots of things to do to be better and to be more lovable and to be more accepted, um, to be in fellowship with God and others. And I sucked at all those things. I was really bad at all those things. So I pretty much just always felt like I was failing and that I wasn't good enough. I was a box breaker. I joke in my book on Common Gospel that you know, a lot of adults spent a lot of time trying to make me fit in boxes, and I obviously had a cardboard allergy. I just wasn't made for boxes. I was I was born for freedom. And this led to me being very internally angsty and at odds with myself and ultimately with God, because all of these God people were telling me this is who God was and that he had expectations, and I was failing the expectations, and therefore I must be making God upset, and he didn't really like me very much. And that's the conclusion I came to, which kind of culminated in a moment in my Bible class in my Christian school when I was in high school, and um my Bible teacher was teaching from the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, and he takes us to the passage at the end of the Sermon on the Mount where um Jesus says, Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. And he teaches that you know Jesus is calling us to be perfect, but we never will be perfect. But don't worry, because we have Jesus and Jesus will help us. And of course, I like you know, raise my hand because I was a problem child. And I asked, so we're supposed to try to be perfect, even though we never will be, and he's like, Yeah, that's what scripture says. And I was just like, um, no thanks. No thanks. I that was I don't know why that was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was the moment that I was like, you know what? I don't want to. I don't want to live my whole life that way. And so I decided that I was gonna leave faith and reject faith because if God didn't want anything to do with me, then I don't want anything to do with Him, you know. And I think part of that also was because there's this other thing that I was taught, which was that um sin is really awesome, and I really want to sin. You know, that's like my nature is to want to sin, but I can't do that because I'm a believer, I'm a Christian, and we don't do that. And so there was this narrative then that sin was really awesome and exciting and pleasurable, and God was really unhappy and unpleased and you know, difficult. So, like, those are the two narratives I was sold. Which one sounds more fun? Certainly not an angry God, right? Um, so let's go try out sin for a while, which I did. I uh I fully invested myself in trying every sin out there, every flavor of flesh, if you will. And I found myself quite miserable, quite miserable. I could not find satisfaction, no matter how hard I tried or how many different flavors of flesh I tried. There was no satisfaction in it for me. And, you know, I know looking back now, in fact, looking back now at that time in my life really proves out the truth of the gospel, which is like I don't want to sin. I'm not made for sin. Uh sin is deadly, dangerous, and miserable to me. And uh, you know, God has better stuff. God has the market cornered. I think a friend of mine likes to say that God has the market cornered on satisfaction. So, you know, I think that's absolutely true. Um, and I've I found that out. But anyway, uh back to my prodigal pig sty. I was uh fully miserable in the pig sty, not loving life, and um it really culminated for me in addiction. I had become an alcoholic, and I was pretty much dependent on alcohol to just function. Every day I woke up and I started my day with alcohol, and it got to the point where I really was trying to drink myself to death because I just didn't really want to live anymore, and I would get really frustrated because I would drink as much as I possibly could until I passed out, and I would wake up the next morning and be mad that I was awake, that I didn't die, you know. And uh it culminated in a moment where I was kind of half sober, half drunk on my kitchen floor in my apartment, and I just was like yelling at God, why don't you just let me die? You don't even like me, you know? And I just felt this overwhelming love. That's all I can describe it as, is just feeling loved and knowing love, choosing, I guess, to remember this little bitty tiny prick of light at the end of the tunnel that was God loves me. Um and I don't know if it was just because I was truly at the end of myself and at the end of like in despair that I dared to believe that God maybe could love me. But I did. I did. I chose to believe it. And I from that left that moment as soon as the sun came out and uh walked into recovery meeting and joined a recovery program and started um getting sober, went to therapy, um had an awesome therapist who talked about God in a very different way. Um and really, I mean, she really was the one who started me on a path towards really diving into a belief about radical grace. And um I won't get into all that. You can read my book Rebels Religion if you want to hear the details of all that, but basically I had a Grace Awakening. Um I read a lot of scripture, uh, really the biggest one for me that sealed the grace, radical grace belief was uh the book of Romans, which is just dripping wet with grace. And uh I read Romans and it really messed up my theology. And I had to really see the truth of the gospel, which is that God is for us, He did all the work, and we get to receive all the good stuff, and He wants us to know how loved we are. So, yeah, I am now wildly obsessed with grace. Grace came kind of crashing into me at my darkest moment, and the more I chose to see and believe that God is a God of love, that God is love, you know, first John 4 says that that God is love, not that he loves, but that he is love. Like that's his nature, that's his character, that's his being, and so therefore anything he does cannot cannot not have love in it, can cannot be without it. When I believed that, and when I chose to look at everything through that lens, I then became very aware of how much we get it wrong in the church. We call something a gospel good news that's actually not good news, it's actually like bad news. The common gospel, quote unquote gospel in the church is that you need to do more to be in fellowship with God. And God's like, actually, I did it all, and I want you to just enjoy me. Yeah, and that's what I discovered. The more I read scripture, the more I read there was lot I read lots of great books by awesome smart people who talk about grace in radical ways. Um, but scripture is really ultimately what did it for me. And uh so for the last 15 years I have been on this grace train, uh obsessed with grace, studying grace, teaching grace, learning all the things about grace. I'm not here because I have grace figured out or have you know faith figured out. I'm here because I truly could not survive without it. Like grace is my life breath. It is why I get up every morning. It is the single most satisfying thing I have ever experienced. I tried everything. Truly, I tried everything out there for satisfaction. And the only thing, the only thing that even remotely brought me actual satisfaction and joy is grace. I know and talk with several people who aren't believers um or have rejected faith altogether like they're believers, but they, you know, decided that they've deconstructed from that. And recently I had someone ask me why Christianity, Jess, like why are you sticking with Christianity? And I said, I don't know everything, but one thing I know for sure is that Jesus is my only hope. Jesus is my only hope. My only hope. I don't know much, but I know for sure that Jesus is my only hope. And I cling desperately to that hope because it is the only thing that's ever um been anything good for me. For me. So, well, there you go. That's the Cliff Notes version of my short story, and uh, I'm sure I'll talk more about it, uh, pieces of it in future episodes. Um, but like I said, if you want to know the details, you can check out my book, A Rebel's Religion, which is essentially the non-Cliff Notes version. So all right, so what is Renegade Grace? Um, let's kind of talk about what I mean when I say renegade grace. Uh so a renegade is defined as a deserter from one faith cause or allegiance to another per Webster's dictionary. Uh so renegade grace then uh deserts the law-keeping bondage of religion for the freedom of grace gifted by the finished work of Christ. Um, so we're we're deserting religion, effort-based religion, performance-based religion, for the freedom of grace that is rooted in Christ. So nothing uh that I'm gonna talk about here is without being rooted in Christ. Christ, again, is my only hope. Uh that's true of my salvation, that's also true of my daily living. So Renegade Grace rejects anything that's dependent on our performance, and it rests fully in all that Jesus did on our behalf. So, radical grace then isn't about lowering the standard, um, it's about changing the source. Essentially, radical grace hooks everything to Jesus. Everything is hooked to Jesus: our salvation, our life, and our power to live out goodness. I think it's Romans 8 that says that Christ died so that the righteous requirements of the law could be fulfilled in us. The righteous requirements of the law could be fulfilled in us. So the standard is not lowered, it's fulfilled through Christ. Um, some things important to note that it is not. So grace, radical grace is not a license to sin. That's a common, you know, um accusation leveled at radical grace. Um, also, it's sometimes called hypergrace in theology circles. So if you hear that word hypergrace, um, same same thing. Um it's not a license to sin. Titus 2, uh, 11 and 12 says that grace is actually what trains us in godliness. So think of to so to think kind of as grace, to think that grace is actually a license of sin is silly when you think about Titus 2, I think. Um it's actually our godliness personal trainer. So radical grace then equals radical godliness. If grace is our godliness personal trainer, then if your grace is radical, your godliness is radical. That's just logic. Um so yeah, it's not a license to sin. Uh it's not, quote, cheap grace, which is another fun umer added to this message of hypergrace. It's not cheap grace. Uh, you can't make grace cheap. It's free. Um, it's not free because it didn't cost anything, it's free because it was expensive and the price was high and Christ paid for it. Um, it's free because it's paid for, Jesus paid it. So no cheap, no cheap grace. Um, it's not spiritual laziness. So one of my very favorite verses in scripture is 2 Corinthians 9, 8. And that verse teaches us that it's actually the hyperabundance of grace that causes us to overflow with good works. So the source of our good works is grace. Um, so grace actually ends up making us more passionate, free, and full of life and empowered to do good stuff than religion. Uh, so no laziness there, no spiritual laziness. Um, it's also not ignoring growth or maturity. Of course, we continue to grow and learn as humans. That's part of being human. But the growth happens while we are already in an environment of grace. So this growth is in our understanding and living out what we already are. It's not an effort to earn more through good behavior. Uh, we grow in grace, just like Jesus grew in grace and maturity and stature. Um, talks about that in Luke chapter two, that he grew in grace, maturity, and stature. Um, he wasn't lacking anything in relationship with God as he grew, like, right? Because he's God. So obviously, God's not withholding from himself. So he's not lacking anything as he's growing, and yet he's still growing in grace. Um, he's still fully united with God, and he's also fully human and growing and learning, and so also are we. So also are we, just as Christ says, so also are we, John says. Um, so yeah, those are things that grace is not, hyper grace is not those things. Um, why talk about this? What's the alternative that's being taught out there? I think that's important to note because I think it's very subtle in the church today. We mix this performance-driven, earning-based religion with God's finished work. We want God, we want Jesus for salvation, right? Forgiveness of sins. So that's when we say salvation, we mean forgiveness of sins, typically, although I believe salvation is far more than that. And I will talk more about that in future episodes. Um, but the alternative is being taught out there, the alternative to radical grace is this mixed grace theology, which is um Jesus is good for our salvation, but we need religion for our daily living. Um, it's really a law-based framework that is a mix of Jesus plus spiritual performance. So when I say law, I'm referring to uh the Mosaic law, which is uh very performance-driven, and that was the covenant that precedes our new covenant of grace now. Um, and we want to try to, I think, mix this law framework with grace and call it Christianity. Um, and it's really driven by our performance rather than Christ's performance on our behalf. Um, kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier in Bible class when I was a teenager, um, which is exactly what was taught, was that um, you know, we should try our best and Jesus will help us with the rest of it. Just try your best, Jesus will cover the rest of it, you know. Um, but you, you know, in order to have a good relationship with God, you have to be trying really hard. And um, you know, really this is the oldest trick in the book from Satan. This is his same lie that he was pitching in the garden. If you think back to Genesis 3. Um, his sales pitch to Eve is not towards this like overtly evil thing. He's not saying, like, you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. His temptation was you could be more like God. God's withholding from you. Um, he doesn't want you to know that you could be like him. If you want to be like him, all you have to do is do this thing. Take the fruit, eat of the fruit. Um, that God warned you was deadly. So he his temptation really is for independent goodness in that moment. And she falls for it, right? And it results in what? Things that are bad for us, because we were never designed to be the determiners of good and evil. Um, he's doing the same thing now within the church. He's tempting us not with overtly evil things, but with things that could make us more good. If you get up every morning at 6 a.m. and read your Bible, then God's going to be more pleased with you. You're going to be more godly. You're going to have what God's withholding from you. Um, getting up and reading your Bible at 6 a.m. isn't a bad thing, but when that thing becomes what you believe your relationship with the Lord is dependent upon, then you've you've made it something that is no good for you. Paul would say in Romans, anything not of faith is sin. And what is not of faith? Self-effort. Self-effort, self-effort is not of faith. Faith is reliance on Christ's effort. So if we have made this thing, that is a good thing on its own, into a way to get more to be transactional in our relationship with the Lord, then it has become something that's no good for us, that is deadly to us and makes us sick. Um, so you know, don't fall for the old trick. Don't fall for the old trick uh of mixing performance and religion, law-based framework with grace. They cannot be mixed, they are in opposition to one another. Paul talks a lot actually in Galatians about um attempting to use human effort, and he he's specifically talking about the law in Galatians. Um he calls it a work of the flesh. Um, he says, Are you have after having you know been received the Spirit, now trying to finish by works of the flesh? And he's specifically referring to works of the law in that moment. So um it's very interesting to me that you know what is holy on its own, the law, could become a work of the flesh for us if we're trying to put ourselves under it as opposed to receiving the finished work of Christ. So um, okay, yeah, that's the alternative. They can't be mixed, they're in opposition to one another. The spirit and the flesh are in opposition to one another. So, what's a law-based framework versus a grace-based framework? So, a law-based framework defines people by behavior. A grace-based framework defines people by identity in Christ. So a law says you're defined by what you do. Grace says you are defined by who you are in Christ. So identity versus behavior. A law-based framework motivates with fear, pressure, and threat of punishment or threat of lack of blessing. A grace-based framework motivates with love, security, and trust. So what you do flows out of the fact that you are loved rather than what you do being because you're afraid of losing love. That would be the difference between the two. Uh, a law-based framework produces striving, hiding, and getting stuck in cycles of shame. Um, a grace-based framework produces real transformation as a result of believing the truth about your new identity. You know, Paul uses the words very intentionally, very different Greek words, by the way, in Galatians about works versus fruit. Um, the flesh is a work, it's an effort, it's a striving. Um, the spirit produces fruit, a natural crop. You know, I often say when I talk about this, does an apple tree have to try hard to produce apples? No, that's what an apple tree does. A healthy apple tree produces apples because that's what apple trees do. So there's a difference. Um a law-based framework is really focused on striving and hiding, and it gets you caught in shame because you're constantly failing the expectation. Whereas a grace-based framework produces real transformation. In fact, um, if you look at scripture, there are lots of instances where it talks about we're a new creation in Christ. I've been crucified with Christ, and now it's no longer I who live. Um Romans says we have become obedient from our hearts. So we have this new heart, which Ezekiel predicts will happen for us in the new covenant that we'll be taken out our heart of stone and given a heart of flesh. So there's real transformation rather than just behavioral transformation through grace. Uh, a law-based framework wants grace for forgiveness of sins only, but self-effort um for daily living or righteousness. Uh, grace-based framework says that grace is for salvation and it's for life. Or as the Apostle Paul says uh in Colossians, just as you received him, also walk in him. So how did you receive him? Through faith. How do you walk in him? Through faith. That is what radical grace teaches. You don't receive him through faith and walk in him through effort and striving and performance. That's not scriptural. You receive him through faith, you walk in faith. Um law manages sin, grace ends its reign. In fact, I can just preach for hours about how many times throughout, especially the book of Romans, uh, but throughout the New Testament in general, um, there is exposition of the law actually creating more sin, the law actually giving power to sin. I think it's 2 Corinthians, first or 2 Corinthians where it says, I think it's 1 Corinthians, where it says that uh the sting of death is sin and uh the power of sin is in the law. So like literally the law gives power to sin. Grace is what ends its reign because um, as Romans says, we no longer are slaves to sin, we're slaves to righteousness. Uh law tells you what to do, grace tells you who you are. So again, behavior versus identity. Why does all this matter? Is it just semantics? That is uh a fun thing that I get often or hear often. Um I have a good friend who um likes to prod me a bit with that phrase. It's just semantics. Uh it's not just semantics, it does matter. Uh, it matters because a law framework keeps you focused on sin and shame. Um, Hebrews 10 talks about how the law reminds people of their sin year after year. It's talking about the sacrifices of the law. Um, it does not offer power over sin or management of sin, it offers a reminder of it. That's what the law does. So having a law-based framework or a religion performance-based framework actually keeps us focused on sin and stuck in shame. Um, that is not a semantics issue. That is a life as a Christian issue. The law also breeds sin. Paul talks about this in Romans 7. He teaches us that he tells his own story and he tells he says that when he put himself under the law, it produced sin, coveting of every kind, he says. Um a couple chapters before that, he tells us that the law came so that sin would increase. You know, so um law breeds sin. And um obviously we don't want that because sin makes us sick. So is that semantics? No, it's the reality that if you're living in a religious performance-based mindset, a law framework mindset, you it will lead you to more sin. It will create more sin in your life, which is deadly to you. Uh, the law is deadly. I just talked about 1 Corinthians. The sting of sin is death, the power of sin is in the law. And it ends, that's I think 1556, 1 Corinthians 1556, that next verse 57 says, but thanks be to God who gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. So the solution to the sting of death and the power of sin is victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Um, grace is the only solution to sin. It's the only solution. Um essentially, you know, if I wanted to bottom line it, if your faith requires fear to work, it will eventually kill you. I mean, just looking back at my story that I started with today, uh, that's where I was at. Like, because of the effort, because of the hopelessness that came from the inability to perform perfectly, and therefore the inability to earn God's love, because that was my law mindset, um, it was rooted fully in fear and rejection, and it did actually lead me to the point of wanting to die. Like it will, it will kill you. It will kill your joy, it will kill your faith, it will kill kill your passion. Um, you cannot effort your way into the fruits of the spirit. You cannot effort your way into joy, you cannot effort your way into peace, you cannot effort your way into love. You could fake your way into it, you can try hard, but you cannot genuinely produce joy, peace, patience um through your self-effort. It just doesn't work. Have you ever tried? Have you ever tried to produce peace um through self-effort? I have, and it only produced more anxiety. So uh yeah, that's why it matters. It's not just semantics, it matters because what we believe about how God relates to us will impact how we live out our lives in the world. If we believe that God is disappointed or that he is waiting on us to engage in a relationship, that he's tolerating us because of Jesus. If we believe those things, we will live in that way with other people. We will live and relate to other people how we believe that God relates to us. And we will just be miserable. Like, what joy is there in a faith that is so rooted in our own self that it loses sight of Jesus? I don't know what hope is in that. So there you go. That is the full summary of me and a summary of what radical grace, renegade grace is. Uh, what can you expect in future episodes of Renegade Grace? Uh, well, you can expect future episodes to cover topics like forgiveness, identity, uh, healing from shame, and unlearning religion. That's gonna be a big, a big thing, is just unlearning these things that religion has taught us. Uh, I'm gonna start with a series that I'm calling Relearning the Gospel, uh, where we'll cover the basics of radical grace theology together, Grace 101, if you will. I almost called it Grace for Dummies, but I didn't want to offend anyone. So we went with Relearning the Gospel. Um let's see. Uh let's just consider this an open invitation to you guys. Um, I'm gonna give you an open invitation from me to stay curious and ask questions. Dare to let go of fear-based assumptions and just give yourself permission to rest. I dare you to give yourself permission to rest and fall into Christ. Uh some of this is probably gonna be hard for some of us. Um, I think there are still things that I find where there's tendrils of fundamentalism and religion that have like wrapped around pieces of my mind that I thought I've gotten rid of, and then something comes up, and I'm like, huh, that's not aligned with scripture, you know? Um, so if some of this is hard to take in, or if you need to wrestle with it, that's okay. That's okay. You don't have to learn, unlearn everything at once. Just stay open, trust the Lord's goodness to lead you to the truth that results in freedom. God will never lead you somewhere that doesn't result in rest, freedom, and peace. He will never lead you somewhere that is contrary to his character. Um, Jesus, I think, um he says something about himself that he is gentle and lowly, he says he came to bring us rest, that his burden is light. These are things he has said about himself. So he's never gonna lead you to a place that is contrary to that. You can trust that the Lord is for you, that he's has goodness for you, that he works everything for good for those uh for the good of those who love him or call to according to his purpose. He is for our good, and he will lead you in goodness. You can trust him to do that. So if it's scary or uncomfortable to kind of address some of these learned religious things, that's okay. Um, take it to the Lord, let him lead you into truth. All right, that ends it for us today in our very first episode. Thank you so much for listening to Renegade Grace. Just a friendly reminder Grace did the work. You get to just live from it. All right, we'll see you guys next time for our very first episode on Relearning the Gospel. Love you, bye.